I thought it was fairly normal to feel empathy for bad people.
I thought it was common, even.
But after my Elon/Grimes post… now I’m wondering if I was mistaken about that.
I wrote a post about Trump being traumatized after his assassination attempt and a post about his poor adaptation to aging. I expressed sympathy for him in both cases. But I still maintain my white hot hatred of him and wish for him to face consequences.
Elon was abused by his father. Some of the stories are incredibly tragic. Hearing those stories triggers an involuntary response in my emotional systems that I can’t stop no matter how much I despise present-day Elon. I also wonder if that abuse never occurred maybe we wouldn’t be dealing with this current clusterfuck.
I have never held so much anger towards a single person as I do my brother. But I also see him as a victim of abuse. I know he was once a really good person and he was slowly corrupted. I feel sorry for him. I mourn the amazing person he used to be. And I still love him.
But that doesn’t make me any less angry.
I honestly think it’s incredibly important for us to understand the people who are bastards who seek to ruin lives. Hitler as a kid wanted to care for his mom who was dying of cancer. Understanding that pain and even relating to it is important for us to not lose the value that they are human. Making them into monsters puts to much space between reality. And he deserved what he got, if not more.
They can be an enemy you want to see destroyed. That you do not want any positivity towards. I think what happens here is that sometimes understanding the tragedies an absolutely right bastard has experienced; threatens their “righteousness of anger.” I, personally, do not think because I have context around another person’s life it invalidates my own hatred of them. For some though that flexibility is difficult to come to terms with so they lash out.
if you have any empathy for these people ur literally compliant in what they’re doing. i don’t care that they had a “shitty home life” and they just need a hug from their dad to feel all better. they’re sick horrible people who are willing to DESTROY AND END the lives of thousands to add another dollar to their billions
I want to start by saying this was incredibly hurtful.
I really think you need to read what I wrote again because you grossly misunderstood it. Especially the “hatred” and “consequences” part. I can tell you for certain I am still wishing that bullet didn’t just graze Trump’s ear.
The absolute gall to tell people they aren’t allowed to have emotional responses. How do I stop an involuntary emotion? What magic technique do you have because I’d love to end my depression and anxiety right now.
Errol Musk raised a stepdaughter, then impregnated her, and then married her. He literally drove his current wife to preschool and she called him “Dad”.
Here is a recent quote from him.
Imagine being raised by that.
This awful person created another awful person. It’s tragic. It’s sad. And it makes me feel bad.
Understanding the reason someone turned into a monster is useful. This tells me we need to do a better job of protecting children or else we are going to keep making new Elons.
it’s useful, and it’s good to understand, but it’s also important not to humanize these people when they won’t hesitate a single moment to destroy thousands of lives
I think most of us can agree that evil is born from trauma and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But the reason we call it evil is that at no moment and in no way it should be justified by our society and collective conscious as
And as cruel as that sounds, there are important reasons for this. It because evil won’t hesitate to dismantle said society, conscious and it’s values from within
This is also called the tolerance paradox. It’s an important observation that was born from the aftermath of WW2
Some things should be dehumanized and given no tolerance, to keep them from spreading
It’s possible we are working off different definitions of “humanize” but I think there is nothing more human than stupidity, ignorance, and hurting others. Elon is just a human. He is fueled by trauma and ketamine abuse and is lashing out at the world. He desperately wanted people to like him but wasn’t willing to put in the work to be remotely likable. Plenty of people overcome their trauma and make the effort to defy their poor upbringing. Elon made a different choice. And he is responsible for that choice. No awful childhood can justify his actions.
I see the lack of humanization as a much larger problem for conservatives. They have taken away Elon and Trump’s status as human beings and elevated them to gods. Elon is an infallible Tech Jesus capable of bending all machines to his will. And Trump is the Grand Business Genius who thinks 90 steps ahead and is playing 8D chess to save our country from immigrants and people with pronouns.
I wish people from that side would humanize them more and see they are flawed, pathetic, and despicable. They are squishy sacks of meat like the rest of us.
I will never excuse their actions or decisions. I consider them well beyond redemption. And I wish every day they never existed.
This is probably a semantic debate. I think we are all on the same page that these people suck and need to go right fucking now.
I actually don’t think this is a semantic debate, I think that Frogman is right and “it’s important not to humanize people who won’t hesitate to (effectively) kill people” is, no shit, protofascist ideology.
No matter how awful, how violent, how genocidal, how “evil” someone is, you have to remember that people are human. You have to treat them as humans, as rational actors who are doing things that they believe will achieve their goals, that their goals are founded in a desire to see *their* version of a better world and not out of some abstract demonic drive to be evil.
The second to last poster is fundamentally understanding the paradox of tolerance in a way that would almost be funny if it wasn’t so fucking dangerous. One of the attitudes that you absolutely cannot tolerate if you want the world to be a better place is the dehumanizing of you enemies.
You can’t do this because it’s saying “there is a version of the world in which it is correct to treat some people as other-than-human, and the rules that apply to humans (the right to a fair trial, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, etc.) do not apply to those people.”
And that means you’re saying there are conditions in which people *can* lose those rights and that’s where the whole thing starts. “People who hurt children don’t deserve rights/kill all pedophiles > the LGBTQIAs are trying to recruit your kids > queers are all pedophiles because they want to recruit and destroy your kids > trans people don’t deserve rights.” “Terrorists don’t deserve rights > all Arabs are terrorists > you can’t do war crimes against a population with no civilians > gazans as young as 4 are hamas > it’s not a war crime to bomb a hospital it’s a legitimate attack against a terrorist stronghold.” “Criminals have violated the law and don’t deserve the same rights as the rest of us > crossing the border without permission from our government is a crime > all undocumented migrants are criminals > it’s okay to separate criminals from their families and put them in cages and offshore prisons”
Elon Musk is a shitty, shitty person but by dehumanizing him, by refusing to recognize that he is just as human (with dreams, hopes, trauma, longing, love, fear, and family) as you are, you are trying to differentiate him from you. You are trying to say “that’s not human. That’s not like me, I’m not like that, that’s a monster and monsters don’t deserve to be treated like people.”
And people who think that way are very good at finding monsters. Maybe the monsters who don’t deserve rights are all the Republicans in congress. Maybe the monsters are all the pardoned J6ers. Maybe the monsters are all republicans generally. Maybe it’s everyone who *tolerates* republicans so it’s everyone in red states. And that’s how you get people saying “they fucking deserved it” after the Texas freeze the same way people are saying “they fucking deserved it” after the LA fires. “Suck it up, that’s what happens when you vote for [my political opponents], you deserve what’s coming to you because you’re all monsters.”
The worst person you can think of, the most genocidal dictator, the most vile racist supporter of apartheid, the most prolific murderer – these are all humans, they are not special, they are not unique, and you would do well to remember it because you’re not special either. It’s imperishable to recognize the humanity of those people because to do so is to recognize that NOT being like that is a choice. YOU could become like them. YOU could do some great harm in the name of your best vision of the future.
Look around at the world right now. Look at the online crackdowns on queer expression, on trans joy. Do you know how we got to a place where it’s easy to ban and hide and silence trans women in the name of “content violations”? It’s because of a bill meant to protect children from being sexually abused. “Of course I support SESTA/FOSTA, I’m not a monster like those pervert freaks, nobody has to tolerate sex on their platforms” – one of the major, major tools that is being used to silence, isolate, and harass queer people online was voted in by Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris.
We have to recognize the humanity of the people who do awful things because it is a vital reminder that we, humans, maybe even good people, can easily do awful things ourselves.
Anyway. Absolutely bugfuck insane that “it’s important not to humanize bad people” is a take that people will say out loud in 2025.
There are people who are decrying the attack on USAID who have loudly and proudly said that Florida doesn’t deserve hurricane relief because of its abortion ban. “Florida doesn’t care about women so I don’t care about Florida.” Great! Cool! That’s the exact same logic used by Trump to withdraw from the WHO.
amhrancas 